DISQUS

Gavin Heaton · 8 months ago

No easy answers on this one ;)

Zac was called out nicely on his attitude and rounded it out in the comments as the discussion grew. Sure classes can be boring - but they can also be fascinating - with the right attitude. The challenge is not in learning what is spoon fed, but choosing your own educational adventure - deciding that your own path is one of challenge, opportunity and exploration.

Unfortunately we have had a good 20 years of "reform" in higher education that has largely turned universities into institutes for vocational learning. This is reinforced by the "user pays" mentality of the client-students who have expectations of a return on their education investment. And while Zac may not fall into this category, my experience (as both a teacher and business employer) indicates that we are producing a workforce which is largely unable to learn, having been spoon-fed for far too long.

Like anything in life, you only get out what you put in. And education is no different. Investing in relationships with your teachers can be hugely rewarding. Where else will you find people so willing to share their knowledge and wisdom with you? I say, take it while you can get it!

Zac Martin · 8 months ago

I'll be to the first to say I am an antagonist. It's what I'm good at. I can stir the pot and start a conversation, but adding value to it isn't my strong point. I need people like you to remind me of that. But the conversation needs to be started none the less, and I know that post of mine (and hopefully this one) will be read by a number of lecturers at my University and hopefully others where the conversation will be taken offline and had with the right people.

In the same way and my style of writing, I present myself as an immature little shit, which is not quite the case. I'm not disruptive and I can honestly say I am usually the loudest and most talkative when it comes to class discussion or asking a question. I love learning when the teaching is good. But reading from a textbook is not teaching, especially when I have the textbook in front of me. Engaging teachers who understand technology, like my favourite Peter Wagstaff don't have this problem, or at least not the the extent as the textbook readers. You can't blame me or a generation when there are successful teachers out there.

But it's not all their fault, I can appreciate that. But when it comes down to it, this is coming from a good (not great) student. You can bet at the end of every semester every tutor and lecturer knows my name, and for the right reasons.

And above all, checking my Facebook page in a tutorial is like you checking your phone quickly in a meeting.

Great post Scott.

Scott · 8 months ago

Hey Zac - thanks for diving in here as well. I didn't want to fracture the discussion on this too much but it also seemed crazy to post such a long comment on your blog - thanks for coming here are getting stuck into the debate.

I don't know about not adding value mate - I think your blog proves that you do more than just start discussions. I think the point here - and as I said in my post, we can all work towards this - is that the problems large institutions face are generally complex and multifaceted. They require deep engagement, thoughtful and collaborative brainstorming and bold policy making by committed leaders. These are not easy things to make happen, especially across huge organisations. This doesn't make them any less necessary or urgent but it does add a dose of reality to the terms of the debate.

Ultimately, I think many of the issues faced are shot through with tension caused by a gulf between inter-generational and inter-situational expectations. The good news is that thoughtful discussions and engaged debate can foster dialogue that helps to communicate goals and actions responsibly, which in turn helps to manage expectations on all sides. Again, hardly an easy fix, but nonetheless incredibly important.

Do me a favour - DM me @scott_drummond - I'd love to throw an idea at you ;-) Thanks again for fueling the debate.

Gav - great to have your view on this. Couldn't agree more with your sentiments. Having largely taken my undergraduate degree for granted, I really understood the value proposition of my MA and of being in the university environment at all. Few other places are as comparable in terms of the breadth and intensity of learning opportunities and I really grasped the MA with both hands.

From my experience teaching it became clear that many students felt obliged to attend uni but had little or no idea why. For two years I taught PhD and MA students on scholarships from developing nations and it always inspired me to see how grateful most of these students were. Their work ethic was second-to-none and you knew they understood the privilege it was to attend a prestigious university with extensive resources.

Those of us who receive a tertiary education are incredibly lucky and we should indeed fight to have that privilege extended to more in society. But it's not just a numbers game - we need to care as much about the quality of educational experience as we do about intake quotas.

Oscar · 7 months ago

I love a good debate! Between the three of you (I've not met Zac) you have a great cross-section of perspectives that paint an interesting picture of the challenges facing tertiary education.

There's still a lot to be said for Socratic teaching, the immediacy of dialogue doesn't just provide in-depth understanding, it also sharpens the mind to deal with problems in real-time. To me, students interfacing directly with teachers prevents the sort of spoon-feeding Gavin mentioned. Tutorials were definitely where I learned the most as an undergrad and where I got the most satisfaction as a teacher. I get dork nostalgia when remembering students' laughs at my METABOLLOCKS heading for a metabolics reaction flow chart. Metabolics was the least sexy, most onerous aspect of biochemistry (everyone wanted to get into molecular genetics after seeing Jurassic Park) heavy on complex organic chemistry. A little humour and irreverence seemed to wake students up and make them more receptive to mind numbingly dull concepts like the process of oxaloacetate oxidation as a citric acid cycle intermediate.

Gavin, perhaps universities could learn a little from the KM forums?

I've recently been involved with the University of NSW to bring video content online. They've set up a simple video upload system for staff to make their video content available for students via a UNSW web portal. These usually consist of short documentaries on aspects of their curriculum. Given the workload of many teaching staff, I'm intrigued to see whether it takes off, whether its a useful investment of time to teach that way. They also set up the UNSW YouTube channel, where any staff and students can post their videos by simply tagging it UNSW. Yet to see how they moderate that though...